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The Uncomfortable Truth About 'racism'; ...Brum is a prime example.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2006, 07:41 PM (2,336 Views)
Cartoni
Garry Pendrey
[ *  *  *  * ]
For the last few years white liberals seem to have had this obsession with beating themselves (and everybody else) up over 'racism' and the fact that everything is 'Institutionally racist' -Government;Media;Police;Schools;Football;etc etc etc. But there is an unpalatable but undeniable truth about race relations in Britain and that is that people tend to want to be amongst (for want of a better term)their own kind and always have, and that should not be a problem even though politicians have never understood this.

Birmingham is the prime example of a multi-cultural but ethnically divided city. We all know the areas of the city that are primarily, Asian, Afro-Carribbean, White working class, White middle class, White Underclass, Somalian, Irish and so on. Sparkhill, for example is now 95% Muslim, and it is no surprise that the white people remaining there want to leave and be with other white people who they consider thay have something more in common with. There is no commanality between the various ethnic groups and probably never will be. Its not racism just human instinct. Muslims who share the same religious, social and personal values want to be in the same communities as well, passing these on to their kids in their schools and community centres. It is no shame though to want to be amongst those with whom you feel the most social and ethnic affinity and not with those with whom you have nothing in common. All ethnic groups are 'guilty' of wanting to pursue and protect their own narrow social agenda and community values.

I come from an Irish Catholic family. I went to an all white primary school and all white secondary. My friends were white and when we talked about asians there was only one word in our vocabulary (it starts with P).Even so, I grew up to be a resaonably decent bloke, I live in a White Middle class area, rarely mix socially out of my own ethnic group and don't feel guilty or racist about it. The simple fact is that you cannot beat human nature and tis means that people will always want to be amongst their own. I don't have a problem with a Muslim parent wanting to send their children to a muslim school that teaches their values and beliefs and equally I don't have a problem with a white parent not wanting to send their child to a school that is 99% asian.

All communities have the same attitudes towards preserving their own culture and history and it is naive for any of us to think that will change or should it. The integrated multi-cultural society is a myth and will never exist. What we have in effect is a kind of democratic Apartheidt (seperate but equal) that we have all helped to create and we must stop force-feeding the dream of a racism free Utopia that most seem not to be interested in.
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It got nothing to do with colour of skin but a lot to do with money, If you look at the asian areas that tend to be in poorer parts of the city. This social structure can be seen very well in places like Bromsgrove. The town is mostly white middle class. The asians that do live there are rich and affluent, they work in health care, such as doctors or hospital practictioners or solicitors etc, their children go to Bromsgrove School, one of the countries most expensive fee paying schools. Now if "they" wanted to "gravitate" to "thier own kind" why hav'nt they?
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
most off us are trapped with in our own classes, i my self live in a predominantly whight area and want out to any area that behaves the same as myself, COLOUR IS NOT AN ISSUE.

i do agree that the cultur issue is a factor in many ways but but take myself for instance the area i live in is white as stated above, but it is degrading to see so many not live the same way as my self.

so the point you make is redundant i think.

@ bear , mat if you think that areas such as alum rock, nechells , hands worth, and such are poor areas then go and work there i have worked for focus housing and for my mate and you would'nt belive the amount of money they have.

what you can say is that people (no mater who they are want the best ) and if they can get that sort of social standing will move to better areas.

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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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i find this whole subject fascinating and i wish i was as eloquent as you two in expressing my views :( ....firstly cartoni, what a brilliant, thought-provoking post on probably the most potent subject of our times, and to bear a great response. this is such a touchy area and against my better judgement i'm gonna give my pennies worth - firstly though, like you two, i like to think i'm not racist as far as colour goes and have had many black and asian friends over the years as testimony to that. so here goes -
i think the really divisive thing that prevents full integration is religion and the mistaken (imo) beliefs that each followers' religion is more sacred and "true" than any other religion. for example, its fairly common knowledge that muslim religion via the koran believes only muslims can enter "heaven" and the rest of us are destined for eternity in front of a furnace. i think that (and this takes a quantum leap of imagination) if religion was somehow removed from society the racist and cultural divides would come tumbling down. what else divides us? the only other common divisive element imo is finance, and as the_bear says, bromsgrove houses asian doctors living cheek by jowl with white doctors and black doctors. to me that tells its own story - we want to be amongst our peers mainly, and colour is always a secondary factor. remove religious fervour,friends, and you remove the tensions that divide us all, for nothing else defines culture as poisonously as religion and as we all know deep down, that cannot be right.
sorry for banging on after a bottle of tempranillo rioja, but i had to contribute to this even if it is bowlocks - and this thread has made me swear, but its the only one that could :blink:
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alfred E nueman
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Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Try living in in North West Wales...where they hate
WHITE IMMIGRANTS
as you are called if you do not speak Welsh.
They hate Brummies, Scousers, Mancs...these are the majority of what can be called "ethnic" immigration into NWWales over the last 30-50 years.

But over the years, that is changing. Kids are going to school together and appreciating the different cultures and idiosyncracies of their parents.

I was brought up in Coventry, and the Irish community from the Kerryman across the city were introverted and secluded. They did not mix, except in pubs. They didn't mix socially because in the main they were Catholic and there was a vibrant, almost aggressive Protestant ethos in the clubs and social life in the 70's.

Immigrants of a different skin colour are exactly the same as the Irish and Scots were 30-40-50 years ago.

My first wife was Irish,...try being Irish after O'Daid blew himself up in Coventry, or after the pub bombings in Brum.

If you, as the originator of this thread have an idea of a social apartheid, good luck to you.
But your children and their children will live alongside, love and support their friends who came from different worlds and cultures.

Stick your head in the sand, and you will only lose out on a wonderful experience of knowledge, information, appreciation and understanding.

:D
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mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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Fantastic to read such an intelligent and well argued thread **thumbup

Just wanted to add a perspective having lived in London for several years. I know a lot of brummies hate London but I love it. London is the most ethnically diverse city in the world and the diversity is one of the best things about it. It's like having a mini-world in one place.

More generally I think that race relations in England are incredibly good. We share a small country with a huge variety of people & by and large everybody is free to live how they want, dress how they want and follow whatever religion they want. I can't think of any other country that has been as welcoming or as tolerant of different cultures & it's something that we take for granted when we should be proud of it.

Comparison with the US is interesting. The US is obviously very diverse ethnically but they place more importance on true integration. i.e. people are expected to put their American identity before their specific culture (flags in school classrooms, etc). In England we place less importance on conformity to a single national identity. An asian can live in Brum, support England in the football, Pakistan in the cricket and (apart from Tebbitt) nobody cares too much either way.

One very nice thing from Euro 2004 was the number of indian/banglasdeshi/chinese/whatever shops & cafes in London that had the flag of St.George in their window. That would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.

I suppose this is probably a rosey view & I know that there are loads of examples of where race relations could be better, but compare London with Paris, Vienna, Moscow or any other capital city, compare England to any country you care to think of & you'll realise just how well all manage to get along most of the time.
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alfred E nueman
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Mikael Forssell
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Mr Penguin...... **thumbup **thumbup **thumbup

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DANY
Geoff Horsfield
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I welcome people moving to my area who share similar values and beliefs.

The big problem we have though is that many of the races we have allowed into this country do not share 'british' beliefs and that is a recipe for disaster. Various governments over the years did not have the sense to stop and think 'are these people suited to britain'

For many years we have allowed anyone into our country judged on their needs and not on what was in the best interests of britain which to me seems rarther insane.

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BlooNose
Frank Worthington
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The_Bear
Jan 27 2006, 07:53 PM
This social structure can be seen very well in places like Bromsgrove. The town is mostly white middle class. The asians that do live there are rich and affluent, they work in health care, such as doctors or hospital practictioners or solicitors etc, their children go to Bromsgrove School, one of the countries most expensive fee paying schools.

**thumbup
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
brilliant thread by the way...

African-Carribean's P.O.V.

i've always felt uncomfortable talking about race, and racism. it's just one of those things where i'm like, ''do we HAVE to talk about it'' i guess i just wanna feel that we shouldnt uneccessarily divide ourselves and that we're all just people making our way on the same land.

i'm disturbed when white people think that displaying an England is offensive, this land belongs to all that think of themselves as English and if people don't feel they're English then quite simpy it's only their problem not anyone elses.

i can appreciate religions, although i'm not religious myself (atheist) but if i could choose whether or not to ban religion, i would ban it. religion has always been a main factor in warfare and animosity, and i often wonder if it does more harm than good.

i'm glad i live in city that is so multi-cultural, it may not all be intergrated, but when you got to the city centre and see every race of human being all in the same place it sends a chill down my neck. :P


Birmingham>>>>London
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mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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DANY
Jan 28 2006, 12:31 PM
I welcome people moving to my area who share similar values and beliefs.

The big problem we have though is that many of the races we have allowed into this country do not share 'british' beliefs and that is a recipe for disaster. Various governments over the years did not have the sense to stop and think 'are these people suited to britain'

For many years we have allowed anyone into our country judged on their needs and not on what was in the best interests of britain which to me seems rarther insane.

I can see a few problems with that argument Dany.

1. "British" beliefs

What are they ?? Do you suppose that Britain ever shared a common set of values - the values of London city traders and merseyside dockers, for example, are miles apart. How about town values vs countryside values ? Are Scottish beliefs identical to English beliefs ? Are values the same in Yorkshire and Surrey ?

2. "Are these people suited to britain ?"

So, would you envisage a government saying, for example, "Hmm. Aussies are fine but (all ?) Pakistani muslims are somehow "unsuitable" so we'd better not let any of them in" ? Aside from the obvious racism, how could a policy like that ever be implemented ?? Who would decide whether Turkish people are suitable ? How about Russians or Chinese or Nigerians or American or French people ?

3. "in the best interests of britain"

Don't overlook the positive aspects of immigration. Britain is a more interesting, dynamic and richer country than the rest of Europe (small island, yet 4th biggest economy in the world) and immigration has contributed a lot to that. Yes, there are bound to be some people playing the system & so costing us money, but there are a hundred times more working their b*llox off in restuarants, shops, factories, etc.

I have some sympathy for your views in as much as I get fed up - as a very patriotic person - when people come to my country and then start slagging it off. The main culprits of that though are Scots in London :lol: (hundreds of thousands of Scots choosing to live in London; 43 Londoners choosing to live in scotland : what does that tell you ?)

Anyway for every muslim cleric you hear about criticising britain, there are loads of ordinary pakistanis, poles, greeks, kiwis, lithuanians, hungarians, chinese and whoever who won't hear a bad word about the place.

I suppose that ultimately we see what we choose to see.
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
^^^(*applaudes*)

although

Quote:
 
(small island, yet 4th biggest economy in the world)


the UK is 5th behind China now **thumbup


IMO, the intergration thing should not be so much of an issue. i mean what do you really expect from immigrants that have come from another country, to listen to the same music the 'host nation' does, worship the same God, eat the same food, speak the same language. poeple should respect that every person has their own identity

it doesnt bother me that there are prodominantly White, Black or Asian areas because each culture needs to cater for their own people. you go to Alum Rock, what will you see, Asian frabrics, Asian food etc, why? because they WANT to preserve their culture because they are proud of that culture. if the 'host country'' was suddenly forced to live this and that way, that goes against their own natural culture, would we not call it fascism and opression?

and although i put up big thumbs up to ''traditional'' British culture, we shouldnt expect or force people to live ''our'' way unless their way is morally wrong or illegal.
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

the last time i had the misfortune to meet a true racist was about 1980, there are unelected organisations that depend on racism for there existence with some of the people in them on 100,000 a year, to see were im going on this please try to read War Is A Racket - Major General Smedley Butler, a google search should take you to the article.

if i was to write a book with over 100 refrences to kill, rape, to name but two against another race, i would expect the book to be banned and for me to be thrown in jail,..... has over 100 ayas promoting violence against non ......, and a similar number to promote hatred and discrimination...and how many Saudi billions to veil these ayas and blind the eyes of the seeing senators and our corrupt politicians.
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Cartoni
Jan 27 2006, 07:41 PM
For the last few years white liberals seem to have had this obsession with beating themselves (and everybody else) up over 'racism' and the fact that everything is 'Institutionally racist' -Government;Media;Police;Schools;Football;etc etc etc. But there is an unpalatable but undeniable truth about race relations in Britain and that is that people tend to want to be amongst (for want of a better term)their own kind and always have, and that should not be a problem even though politicians have never understood this.

Birmingham is the prime example of a multi-cultural but ethnically divided city. We all know the areas of the city that are primarily, Asian, Afro-Carribbean, White working class, White middle class, White Underclass, Somalian, Irish and so on. Sparkhill, for example is now 95% Muslim, and it is no surprise that the white people remaining there want to leave and be with other white people who they consider thay have something more in common with. There is no commanality between the various ethnic groups and probably never will be. Its not racism just human instinct. Muslims who share the same religious, social and personal values want to be in the same communities as well, passing these on to their kids in their schools and community centres. It is no shame though to want to be amongst those with whom you feel the most social and ethnic affinity and not with those with whom you have nothing in common. All ethnic groups are 'guilty' of wanting to pursue and protect their own narrow social agenda and community values.

I come from an Irish Catholic family. I went to an all white primary school and all white secondary. My friends were white and when we talked about asians there was only one word in our vocabulary (it starts with P).Even so, I grew up to be a resaonably decent bloke, I live in a White Middle class area, rarely mix socially out of my own ethnic group and don't feel guilty or racist about it. The simple fact is that you cannot beat human nature and tis means that people will always want to be amongst their own. I don't have a problem with a Muslim parent wanting to send their children to a muslim school that teaches their values and beliefs and equally I don't have a problem with a white parent not wanting to send their child to a school that is 99% asian.

All communities have the same attitudes towards preserving their own culture and history and it is naive for any of us to think that will change or should it. The integrated multi-cultural society is a myth and will never exist. What we have in effect is a kind of democratic Apartheidt (seperate but equal) that we have all helped to create and we must stop force-feeding the dream of a racism free Utopia that most seem not to be interested in.

If I understand you correctly, I agree.

I can't speak for the rest of the "white liberals" (don't you just love these generic labels. Is that a kind of bigotry? Not an accusation, just raising a question) but I think you seem to be arguing for tolerance.

It's really that simple. Let people get on with their own lives. Who cares if they have a different culture, religion or skin colour.

Nobody likes to have theri lives dictated to us. Not me, and I'm guessing not you.

How hypocritical is it therefore, to insist that someone else changes their lives to fit in with our idea of a "good citizen"?

With tolerance comes respect, and then whenver we want to (i.e socially) or need to (i.e. in the work place) then we can revel in the things we all have in common, and celebrate our differences.

Gazza
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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DANY
Jan 28 2006, 12:31 PM
I welcome people moving to my area who share similar values and beliefs.

The big problem we have though is that many of the races we have allowed into this country do not share 'british' beliefs and that is a recipe for disaster. Various governments over the years did not have the sense to stop and think 'are these people suited to britain'

For many years we have allowed anyone into our country judged on their needs and not on what was in the best interests of britain which to me seems rarther insane.

Well done, this is a fine example of the opposite of tolerance that I wrote of in my last post.

Dany, we don't have to be the same. Only you and your chums in the BNP (after all, you are a self confessed BNP voter) who fear something they don't understand see this as a problem.

Gazza
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Paul Tait's Tee-Shirt
Paul Tait's Tee Shirt
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alfred E nueman
Jan 27 2006, 10:22 PM
Try living in in North West Wales...where they hate
WHITE IMMIGRANTS
as you are called if you do not speak Welsh.
They hate Brummies, Scousers, Mancs...these are the majority of what can be called "ethnic" immigration into NWWales over the last 30-50 years.


"Come home to a real fire" - Buy a holiday home in North Wales ;)
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Mr. Barnard
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Having moved back into the conurbation three years ago, I am delighted at the integration that has happened so far, and look forward to continued integration. We live oon a new development, in what you would term a middle class area of Solihull (although I hate the stereotyping) On this develoment, living I presume by choice, and be the fact that they can afford it, are traditional white english (accepting this is a misnoma), Greek, Asian Muslim, Asiam Seikh, Asian Hindu, Black African, chinese, Irish trad white, and probable more that I haven't yet spoken to. The development is small, about 60 properties, and is beautfully at peace with itself.

I was around in Handsworth in 1950s when, at 5 years old, I was shocked by big black peole moving in quite large numbers into our road, then an Irish family moved in next door where a very well spoken trad Eng white family had lived. Partick woulod wash his hair in a saucpan in the back garden, but apart from that were very good neighbours, the big black faces turned from being a source of fear to a five year old, to become such big lovely personalities.

I have had a lot of experience of living in multicultural societies, boy I have even lived with Geordies, and for the period 1991 to 2002 lived in Nth Hampshire, in a very well to do area. Major Friend lived next door and Lady Gault lived 200 yards away.

I know quite clearly which option I prefer, and that is where I live now. I also know where the most violence and crime per capita is, and it aint here!!!!!

People get very frightened by things that are diferent, as I did when I was a child, we should try to deal with that kindly, but I have to say racism is totlally unacceptable, and is one of the rotten apples which will always make society deteriorate.
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Haven't read all posts.


The way I see it is this.

If you are willing to move to a new country, adapt your ways and embrace the ways of that new country be it GB, France, Mexico, Spain, Africa, Pakistan, Mongolia, Australia or any of the other countries of the World then so be it. People are free to live wherever they want to whenever they want to. I have no problem with migration at all.


I will accept anyone who crosses my path as a human being as long as they're not stroppy, have a bad attitude and are unwilling to contribute.

I really can't see the pint in moving to a whole new culture if you're not going to embrace it and experience it fully. Why bother emmigrating if you're going to live exactly the same way as you do where you come from?

When I am in Spain I make an effort to speak as much Spanish as I can. I am limited to hello, goodbye, please and thankyou but a little effort goes a long way. When I am in France I can speak a little more French so do male more effort.

I eat Paella in Spain and croissants in France.

In recent years it does seem that many 'minorities' have distanced themselves further and further fron Western culture or British culture in particular. We have seen a vast rise in the amount of women wearing traditional Islamic dress and covering everything. Why? Surely this just alienates these women further from the society they have chosen or their parents chose for them to live in.

Tolerance is a two way street and should be persued by all people whatever your background or history.

Birmingham is a truly multiculteral city and we all benefit from the different things on offer from food to art.

I find a lot of problems stem from people being offended on behalf of someone else. Take 'Winterval' for a prime example. The council decided Christmas would offend none Christians so removed the offence. What they really did was stirr up racial tensions that helped nobody. If you don't celebrate Christmas you don't have to. Nobody is forced to but it is fun and you can celebrate your own reasons on that day.

I understand the will of people to gather in areas where there are a number of others who are from the same background. It makes sense. However, with so many 'Asians' being born here over the last 2 or 3 generations, most are now British not Asian anyway.

My friend's brother lives in Tenerife and his daughter is Spanish. Both parents are English but she goes to a Spanish speaking school, has Spanish friends and speaks more Spanish than English. She has a proper little Spanish accent and is very cute. To me, that is real integration. They are living a Spanish life.

For too long people have been preoccupied with not losing their roots they have missed many oportunities to experience Western life at it's best. You don't have to lose your roots, your culture or your identity to throw yourself in at the deep end and enjoy new experiences.
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sailorblue
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Jose Dominguez
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What a great thread. The vast majority of people in this country are tolerant and respectful of other races customs and religion and happily live together. Unfortunately this state of affairs is not good news for the ever increasing number of people who earn a living in the 'PC' industry.

It is almost always these people who will question attitudes and stir up a hornets nest of controversy to try and justify their jobs existance. Poor race relations are the oxygen they need and they will cynically manipulate any situation to their advantage.
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
For me, good race relations, tolerance and equality all mean 1 thing.

If we have all of them, we need never mention them.

By continually mentioning differences you're fuelling hatred based upon them.

Ignor differences and accept people for who they are and we won't need race relations acts and PC police.
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loyal blue
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Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Jan 29 2006, 03:32 PM
Haven't read all posts.


The way I see it is this.

If you are willing to move to a new country, adapt your ways and embrace the ways of that new country be it GB, France, Mexico, Spain, Africa, Pakistan, Mongolia, Australia or any of the other countries of the World then so be it. People are free to live wherever they want to whenever they want to. I have no problem with migration at all.


I will accept anyone who crosses my path as a human being as long as they're not stroppy, have a bad attitude and are unwilling to contribute.

I really can't see the pint in moving to a whole new culture if you're not going to embrace it and experience it fully. Why bother emmigrating if you're going to live exactly the same way as you do where you come from?

When I am in Spain I make an effort to speak as much Spanish as I can. I am limited to hello, goodbye, please and thankyou but a little effort goes a long way. When I am in France I can speak a little more French so do male more effort.

I eat Paella in Spain and croissants in France.

In recent years it does seem that many 'minorities' have distanced themselves further and further fron Western culture or British culture in particular. We have seen a vast rise in the amount of women wearing traditional Islamic dress and covering everything. Why? Surely this just alienates these women further from the society they have chosen or their parents chose for them to live in.

Tolerance is a two way street and should be persued by all people whatever your background or history.

Birmingham is a truly multiculteral city and we all benefit from the different things on offer from food to art.

I find a lot of problems stem from people being offended on behalf of someone else. Take 'Winterval' for a prime example. The council decided Christmas would offend none Christians so removed the offence. What they really did was stirr up racial tensions that helped nobody. If you don't celebrate Christmas you don't have to. Nobody is forced to but it is fun and you can celebrate your own reasons on that day.

I understand the will of people to gather in areas where there are a number of others who are from the same background. It makes sense. However, with so many 'Asians' being born here over the last 2 or 3 generations, most are now British not Asian anyway.

My friend's brother lives in Tenerife and his daughter is Spanish. Both parents are English but she goes to a Spanish speaking school, has Spanish friends and speaks more Spanish than English. She has a proper little Spanish accent and is very cute. To me, that is real integration. They are living a Spanish life.

For too long people have been preoccupied with not losing their roots they have missed many oportunities to experience Western life at it's best. You don't have to lose your roots, your culture or your identity to throw yourself in at the deep end and enjoy new experiences.

Spot on k-bek **thumbup I don't think I will add to it as i'm not quite as eloquent and don't want to be construde as saying the wrong thing. I think you pretty much covered it anyway.
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Jan 29 2006, 03:32 PM
Haven't read all posts.


The way I see it is this.

If you are willing to move to a new country, adapt your ways and embrace the ways of that new country be it GB, France, Mexico, Spain, Africa, Pakistan, Mongolia, Australia or any of the other countries of the World then so be it. People are free to live wherever they want to whenever they want to. I have no problem with migration at all.


I will accept anyone who crosses my path as a human being as long as they're not stroppy, have a bad attitude and are unwilling to contribute.

I really can't see the pint in moving to a whole new culture if you're not going to embrace it and experience it fully. Why bother emmigrating if you're going to live exactly the same way as you do where you come from?

When I am in Spain I make an effort to speak as much Spanish as I can. I am limited to hello, goodbye, please and thankyou but a little effort goes a long way. When I am in France I can speak a little more French so do male more effort.

I eat Paella in Spain and croissants in France.

In recent years it does seem that many 'minorities' have distanced themselves further and further fron Western culture or British culture in particular. We have seen a vast rise in the amount of women wearing traditional Islamic dress and covering everything. Why? Surely this just alienates these women further from the society they have chosen or their parents chose for them to live in.

Tolerance is a two way street and should be persued by all people whatever your background or history.

Birmingham is a truly multiculteral city and we all benefit from the different things on offer from food to art.

I find a lot of problems stem from people being offended on behalf of someone else. Take 'Winterval' for a prime example. The council decided Christmas would offend none Christians so removed the offence. What they really did was stirr up racial tensions that helped nobody. If you don't celebrate Christmas you don't have to. Nobody is forced to but it is fun and you can celebrate your own reasons on that day.

I understand the will of people to gather in areas where there are a number of others who are from the same background. It makes sense. However, with so many 'Asians' being born here over the last 2 or 3 generations, most are now British not Asian anyway.

My friend's brother lives in Tenerife and his daughter is Spanish. Both parents are English but she goes to a Spanish speaking school, has Spanish friends and speaks more Spanish than English. She has a proper little Spanish accent and is very cute. To me, that is real integration. They are living a Spanish life.

For too long people have been preoccupied with not losing their roots they have missed many oportunities to experience Western life at it's best. You don't have to lose your roots, your culture or your identity to throw yourself in at the deep end and enjoy new experiences.

Give up on the winterval.

It never happened!

I agree though, whichever PC idiot even muttered the words and thought they were helping deserves a new post as Publicicst for Robert Kilroy Silk. They can do no harm there.

Tolerance is just that.

If they want to stick to their own culture wherever they are in the world, then it is tolerant to allow it.

It makes no difference to your life or mine. Therfore we have no right to say it is wrong.

Gazza
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jassyblue80
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Trevor Francis
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k-bek
Jan 29 2006, 03:32 PM


I will accept anyone who crosses my path as a human being as long as they're not stroppy, have a bad attitude and are unwilling to contribute.

living in lea village and working in education i'm sure you don't find to many who are not at least one of these things or maybe all of them ;)

winterval never happened K-bek you really are stuck on that...

did you go up town over christmas? winter markets, happy christmas lights etc it was really nice and the council had made a great effort **thumbup

tollerence is about me accepting others aswell as expecting them to accept me as I am!!


*edit* sorry didn't see tubs post
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
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Winterval did happen.

It was well publicised. Only the outcry from the public stopped it all together. The idea was to have lights and deccorations but to have them none specific so there was no real reference to Christmas in them. Birmingham City Council wanted to do away with the Merry Christmas signs, not Christmas all together.

It did happen.

Being tolerant of people wanting to stick together is one thing. Changing the way you live and ignoring your own traditions, beliefs and culture so they're not offended is another issue entirely.

What creates much oif the racial tensions today is the way many people feel they are expected to ignore their own values, beliefs and traditions but accept those of others without question.
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chris1875
Geoff Horsfield
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I don't want to comment on a thread like this because i could see my opinions getting me a ban.
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